This morning I did my usual routine of rising between 2am or 3am or there abouts, let the dog out for her wizz-poop, (not to be confused with whizz-poop) put on the coffee, suck in my medication that allowes me to function somewhat all day, then settled down at the puter to check on the state of the world. (I gotta get a life?) Then after checking the news, which is usually all bad, I turn to browsing the Blogs.
What seems to have been a recurring theme and discussed a lot on many of the blogs is that the Arts Community or those that associate themselves with them and the non Arts Community, or us longtime locals, as apposed to the new comers, taking sides against each other. Seems the newbies having come from more progressive and liberal communities want to model their new found home after the one they just left. Forgetting that the progressiveness and liberalism was probably the reason they left in the first place! Now us locals somewhat resent being told that we are undereducated, dumb, anti-art, regressive in our thinking, and our school system sucks......we already know this! But what pisses us off most of all is the newbies want to cram their life style down our throats. Not liking or seeing any meaning in a bunch of crushed up garbage sitting on a stick seems to put us in the Neanderthal Man category in their eyes.
Now having said all that what is now understood by the Art Community is that the Arts are not the Save All that it was touted to be in the beginning. (we are not going to say "We Told You So" ) They now realize that you need a diverse community with each endeavor complimenting the other. The radical, something for everyone idea.
North Adams may not be Shangrala but it is, even with all its faults, a great place to live!
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
41 comments:
Hey Sountview-- any particular blogs---with recent posts-- I know this issue has appeared periodically-- ove the past year and a half-- after that naked lady drawing in Eric Rudd's window--- but I'm not sure I've seen anything new--maybe you hit some blogs that I haven't--- I do yours- Andy's- I check in on Wes Flinn's- although am barred from posting---Ross Jacobs-- Greg Roach's--- actually there was a few weeks where I couldn't post as most of you had changed servesr- or whatever- and I couldn;t access a secure site---- computer has been fixed----one difference that I see when we're looked at as Neanderthals---that we are iused to it from some folks in Billsville-- difference- with the newbies now is that they walk among us---frankly I'd rather have my feet and knuckles firmly on the ground- than my head up my ass---sure some would say that I hit a trifecta---but trust me- I am not that limber--chbpod
chbpod...I go to Ross's blog a lot and use his links,plus mine, I'm a bad boy! I don't think we are anti-Art but ART ain't the whole world and that's just the way it is. We ain't no billsville or south county and we don't want to be! We kinda like swinging from the trees nakid once in a while!
Southview, it is a great place to live. I think this is my 15th address in 17 years, and this is by far the best place I've lived yet.
I don't care if the natives don't like art, hell, I wasn't a huge fan of it before I moved here. But since it is part of the backdrop, I take advantage of it -- like I went to Eagles football games when I was at Boston College, or protest marches for causes I didn't really care about when I lived in D.C.
When people ask me why I moved here, they have this look in their eyes like they can't see the beauty of where they live. My answer is usually, have you looked around lately? It is beautiful here, the mountains are amazing, there is no traffic, the cost of housing maybe one of the lowest in the Northeast. I can afford to raise a family here and still see them for dinner every night, and I actually have a better social life than I did in suburbia.
But what I struggle with is a local ethos that nothing good can ever happen here, that everything will always be shit, unless some magical manufacturing company comes in and saves the town. I could see thinking that in say, 1950, or maybe even in 1980, but to continue to think that in 2007 is dangerous and may be the biggest threat to the region's long term economic prosperity.
Let's put this in context--- when Mass MoCA was just an idea for re-use of the Sprague Complex- the Transcript did a person on the street thingie--- one woman said we should have a zoo- so she could take her kids there-- another said we needed a mill---now that as in the 1990's---the value of MoCA is not lost on our citizens today---and that was not the point that Southview was making----live and let live---is good enough-- but don't try to get us to live the newbies way-we know our shit stinks-- guess who doesn't???---talk about beautiful views///and probably every newbie thinks that a wind farm on the ridge would just be wonderful---there go the views-- windmills suck---chbpod
I still don't understand.
What makes it somehow wrong for professional people to move into town, buy and fix up the city's aged property inventory, increase the tax base, contribute to the community and economy, and then--horror of horrors--attempt to participate in the governance of the city that they are every bit as invested in as someone who's been here for 30, 50, or 150 years?
What would make you happy, Jack? CHB? Would you rather see more SSI or Section 8 people from Pittsfield and Albany, renting from absentee landlords?
A moratorium on people moving into town at all?
A rule forbidding any city resident to make any statement suggesting anything less than 100% infatuation with the status quo?
You think North Adams is SO perfect that NO progress can be made?
You don't for a second want to put aside the "Us vs Them" mentality for a few hours to have a constructive dialog about what we can all do to make things better for everyone who lives here?
We're all in this together, fellas. I live here just like you; bought a house and pay my taxes here just like you; my kids will go to school here just like yours. What is so threatening to you about my opinions?
Wouldn't it make more sense to embrace the fact that there are constructive, positive people in town and work together with them to guide the city to its next incarnation?
What are you fighting? Evolution itself?
WOW ROSS...I seem to have unintentionly pushed your buttons! My point was to remind people that sometimes, all though good intentioned in their desire to better things, do just the opposite. The other point I was trying to make, that you seem to have missed, was that new arriveals in their zeel to fit in forget the reason they left their old home in the first place. They bring with themselves old baggage that would have been better left behind.
There is the school system problem here, but insted of joining in and trying to make it better, joining the PTA, or other school related functions, they choose to home school or private school or charter school and continue to bad mouth the school system, that reeks of snobbery!
The "US/THEM" is not locally grown, it is some of that baggage I was talking about and the underlying theme of the blog.
No one ever said we don't want Professional People or any other group that is willing to invest in the City. We need devercity and that is the point. I am pro wind power and any alternate power generation but I agree with Clark I don't want them willy nilly stuck on every mountain top in the area. If they can be placed out of sight then go for it. Remember our vista is one of our most valued assets and what makes us...us!
And ROSS...Welcome!
Amy...You seem to be unique, seeing the trees from the forest. Yes this is a very, just being descovered, desireable place to live. I think a lot of the fear is that along with an influx of new people come some undesireable destructive ideas. It seems to be the nature of people that as soon as they move to a new place, is to want to remake the nest to conform to what they are use to. They may be well intentioned but the end result is they turn their new home into their old home, the reason they moved in the first place. Insted of (no button pushing intended) first trying to fit in, there is a tendency to try and takeover and iniciate change where change isn't needed or wanted. (I like to call it the snoopy neighbor syndrome or the peeping peter problem) Live and let live and mind your own business is my answer to these people. You are not welcome here!
Anyway Amy, glad you can see the beauty of the area.
I think Ross asked some excellent questions that the us/them crowd failed to address. And yes the us/them started with us locals first in response to new ideas from new residents.
Southview I disagree with your analysis of what the new residents are trying to do. Just because a person left one area to move to another doesn't mean A) that every aspect of life in the old place was undesirable and B) they left because life was so terrible where they were.
Could it be that the newer residents are trying to bring to this location some of the best of where they were in hopes to improve life here?
I don't see anyone telling Joe Thompson to try and fit in before he suggests anything. I don't hear anyone calling Mr Thompson a "Billsville" snob.
How soon we all forget all the grief that Eric Rudd received until his new ideas started to put NA in the spotlight.
da snoop.....
I'm not positive, but I believe it started (us/them) by Mr. Rudd and a letter he published in the Transcript pitting the new comers against the locals.
I think everyone welcomes new ideas whether imported or home grown. I will say that something that worked just peachy some place else doesn't necessarely mean that it will be welcomed or work in another place.
I'm sure not every aspect of new residents life was bad but you have to admit they moved because life here looked a lot better.
As for Mr. Thompson...He doesn't live here and that should in itself tell you something about how he feels about North Adams.
Maybe I was too close to the situation that developed with the naked lady drawing-----it should never have come before the City Council in the first place--given that it did and the majority were able to whirl into oblivion- nonwithstanding-- within minutes of the meeting three artistas declared their candidacy for the Cit Council--basically saying that theCity was anti-art and they needed to redecorate the political landscape---two of the candidates had been here less than a year--BUT THEY KNEW BETTER-----that attitude has set the tone----one candidate even suggested that the City not waste money on the skating rink and use the money to subsidize artists so they could afford to live here-----it has been stated that the availability of artists space along with a relatively low cost of living (compared to Boston of NYC) was a draw----if we don't want Section 8's why should we want artists that need to be subsidized---one candidate was on fuel assistance-- after purchasing a $150,000 loft----WTF???? The point is that the city is not anti-art or anti-artist---certainly my purpose in getting the naked lady thing out of the headlines was precisely because I didn;t want the city to appear to be anti-art or anti-artist----however you do have this enclave at Eclipse----and probably a lot of intellectual in-breeding----and re-inforcement of their creative and intellectual talents---but a couple of artistsliving here less than a year-- trying to tell the city that they know what's best and that they know better -- did more to isolate the artists and the locals than anything else that has transpired.
It is not up to the regular citizens of North Adams to integrate or ingratiate themselves into the artists community--it's the other way around--we should expand our definitions of what this city is to incorporate what it has been with what it may become---but the assumption that the city needs a complete make-over-- to accomodate artists-- forgets that there are other people with other needs---and implies that those people -- should be ignored-because they are neanderthals---well us neanderthals--- some here for generations -others for decades --like where we are and who we are-- warts and all----but the attitude I get from some of the newbies- is that NA is one giant wart---from a political stand point I feel that as a City Councilor I have a responsibility to do my best for everyone in the City----and that even includes the Eclipse sophisticates-----chbpod
Joe Thompson- as far as I know lived in Billsville -before he ever became director of MoCA----you may be right about Rudd's letter endorsing the 5 Ruddinistas---and that did hurt--- since the City Council OK'd zoning changes so that he could do the Eclipse Mill--- as well as the now defunct Blackington Mill proposal----sure he would have received the same votes if "his" candidates had been on the Council at that time-- but there was very little evidence that any of the cnadidates endorsed by Rudd---had the overall interests of the city in mind----
although----the declaration of candidacies from 3 were announced to the press in the hallway outside Council Chambers immediately after the naked lady agenda item had been resolved---Buddington had announced much earlier and then Peter May jumped in afterward---they were joined at the hip-- Kelly Lee appearing regularly on Buddingotn's TV show---frankly I had not seen an "us v. them" atmosphere prior to those two Council meetings--but it developed and has taken on a life of its own---although Peter May is close to the group-- his candidacy was more political than artistic--- it was clear that he wanted the Council to debate and pass resolutions of national interest--- Patriot Act-- Bush impeachment----andmost folks don;t think that they are appropriate issues to come before the Council---I for one at this point would urge the impeachment of Bush--- although I would never submit such a resolution to the Council for consideration----OH Yea-- not because of WMD's- Patriot Act- Iraq War--- Bush has failed to secure our borders against an invasion of illegal aliens----and they are not here just to take jobs that Americans won;t take-- 24% of the construction workers in the uS are aliens (foreigners) some legal -some illegal--and construction jobs pay pretty damn well----so they are not just taking fast food- motel housekeeping-sweatshop-- and other such jobs---------I'd vote to impeach him and remove him from office for the DOJ's handling of the border patrol agents-----funny- I don;t think that that federal prosecutor was one fired by Gonzalez----wonder why---chbpod
First off, not all newcomers are artists.
Second, it's not fair to--forgive the metaphor--paint all artists with the same brush. Folks like Kurt Kolok, Josh Field, Howard Cruse, and literally dozens of other folks who power the creative economy and have purchased homes here (not Williamstown, if that even matters) may be newcomers, but smart, involved newcomers whose suggestions for improvement shouldn't be taken with such inferences of "disrespect" towards longtime residents.
Third, you either want the city to attract new residents, or you don't. But you can't want people to come here and then deride or marginalize them for getting involved--whether you agree with them or not.
Fourth, it sounds like the baggage here is coming just as much--if not more--from the entrenched city infrastructure. Holding a grudge against a few political opponents isn't out of line, but taking such a strident stance against anyone who is in the same profession as them or has been here the same length of time as them is just counterproductive to the health and evolution of the city we all chose to live in.
You don't like Rudd? Dr. May? Eric Buddington or Kelly Lee? Fine. More power to you. It's your blood pressure. But don't shut off all political debate or ridicule participants before you know who they are or what they stand for simply because they're "new" in town.
And by the way, Jack--thank you for the welcome. It's nice to be here.
Southview regarding newcomers: "instead of... trying to make [the schools] better, joining the PTA... [etc.], they choose to home school or private school or charter school and continue to bad mouth the school system, that reeks of snobbery!
1) I won't hurt the school system if I send my kids to private school. Indeed, by paying taxes and yet not putting my kids in the Adams schools, I am saving the town money, which it can use to increase resources to the remaining students.
2) I don't see how wanting a better school for one's children, or even badmouthing the schools, for those who do it, is "snobbery" -- unless they are motivated by a desire to keep their kids away from the working class, rather than to get their kids well educated.
3) I doubt you believe that the real motivation is snobbery. I think you agree that the schools are objectively weak, and I don't think many of us have so much time or money that we would really pull our kids out for "snobbery" or other inconsequential reasons.
Southview,
Perhaps most of the newcomers are more liberal than you, and would bring liberal notions to the area, like high spending and taxes and gay-pride marches, but don't paint us all with the same brush! I mean, I'd be OK with the gay pride march, but I'm not in favor of big government.
Actually I was going even further back with Mr. Rudd's wave making. Like the time he wanted the city to rip up the side walks and replace them with different colored cement. At the time he was considered a crack pot, last year he was the marketing genius of NA.
Well Ross- aside from the Rudinistas-- I never heard of your artista friends-- never heard of them-- and if they have had anything to "offer"--- never heard that either--that you can get together and drink liberally and go goo goo with a few like minded leftists- at EGL (gee there sure were able to draw a crowd eh?)-- still doesn't mean that they have anything to offer----until such time that I hear different from the artisita group and their friends- such as your self--- the paint brush is wet and broad---if you let the Rudds- Lee - Harlow- May and Buddington be your spokespersons---then you get what you get--and dasnoop is correct-- when Eric Rudd wanted to block a $million downtown development grant because he said that the design had not been reviewed by local artists----and at the time (1995)----I had never heard of him before he showed up with his snot-nosed attitude-- "I am an artist- and I know better"---yup it does go back 10 years---and the artista bunch have done nothing to change their pretentious disdain- holier than thou-self-righteous pomposity --toward locals ever since---and Ross is right there leading the parade----personally I don't want your tax money---go away--your money is just as tainted as drug money---- you leech
chbpod
Good god, man of pod!
In whose backside is a rod.
Thinks yuppies are leaches,
too big for their breeches,
and drug-dealers run roughshod.
So...there in lies the heart of the problem...How do we want to be proceived by the outside world? Do we want to be seen and sell ourselves as an Art Community only, as the Art Community would like? (Another Northhampton, South County, Williamstown) or do we want to be noticed as a deverse Community with beautifull mountain views, clean lakes, great hiking and fresh air outside activities and also having oppertunities for all sorts of endevors, to include but not be inclusive, the Arts.
You can not fault long time residents for being less than kind to a group that is welcomed into the community with open arms but then tries to dominate and take over, brushing aside existing cercomstance and relating it to a Neanderthal existance. This is excatly what happened with Mr. Rudd and the rudnicks. Those that became caught up, unintentionly in the net, we feel for you.
I guess what I am trying to say is that we welcome everyone and we want devercity but not domination by one group and their style of living. Live and let live! I have to agree completely with Clark that it is their responcibilty to blend in not the other way around.
I don't have a rod up my ass
The insult? I'll let it pass
But I will smite
with all my might
Those blowhard artists with gas
chbpod
Priceless.
As I've said many times before, those who harm our city do not come from the outside. It comes from within.
And a Limerick battle to boot!!!
BEST THREAD EVER!!!!
In last week's Transcript, there was an article about Waterfront Media moving to bigger offices downtown. Last week they posted an ad for an online marketing position, a local web business is having a hard time filling the one position he has open, because he can't find a qualified candidate to "pimp myspace pages", and I've heard tell of a third who just stopped looking to advertise locally because he couldn't find qualified candidates.
These are real jobs, that don't demand a lot of training, just a little bit of specific training - that is being taught locally for very little money. How many other companies in North Adams are adding employees?
The fact that this is a young arts community rank pretty high on a digital migrant living scale, but there is no reason we should be importing immigrants to do jobs that can be done locally.
I don't know anyone who believes that the arts community can be the only leg holding up a local economy; evolution means not making the same mistakes over again. But living in an arts community is much nicer than living in a depressed mill town which has a great past and no future.
I don't see North Adams becoming the next Northampton, but I do see a lot of lessons that we can learn from Sommerville, where the end of Cambridge rent control sent a wave of artists, then yuppies, into the working class neighborhoods. When the property values went up, the mayor cut classroom sizes and greatly improved the public school system for the working class kids who were already in it. The mayor parlayed the city's success into a seat in the U.S. Congress.
First off let me say thanks to Jack for opening pandora's box. I think it's great to get this discussion out in the open and involve both sides. We all get little glimpses of this sentiment here and there but we rarely get a chance to hash it out with someone from the "other side."
Second, since chbpod let us know he's on the city council and the initials match so well, I have to assume that this is Clark Billings. If I'm wrong please let me know. I'd hate to atribute his stream of bile to the wrong person next time I'm in the voting both. When the next members of the "artista's" sleeper cell decide to try their hand at vilified newbie candidacy, I think his seat will make a really fine place to start.
There, now that I've vented, maybe I can add something worthwhile to the conversation. I think this kind of Them vs. Us sentiment is a natural if unfortunate reaction to these kind of changes.
Many of the original residents of this town go back many generations and have a sense of place and permanence that a newbie like me can't even imagine. I'm sure they didn't like it when the manufacturing jobs started to melt away either but all the bitching and moaning in the world wouldn't have stoped it and they eventually had to adapt or perish.
On the other side you have all of us newbies coming in from all over the country attracted by change, growth and what we see as really cheap real estate. All this in a setting we normally only see on vacation. To us, North Adams is a land of opportunity and possibilities. We might not see the town in the same way as the "originals" but we love it every bit as much and have no desire to turn it into another NY or Los Angeles. We want to preserve the good we've found as much as anyone.
In the end, it's neither groups responsibility to "blend in " with the other. The newbies could just as easily claim that we're here cleaning up the mess and the folks that were here when it happened should blend in with us. Of course that would be just as pig headed in the opposite direction. What we should really be doing is rolling up our sleeves and working together. There's still plenty that needs fixing and for the most part, you'd get the same list from both sides of this discussion.
Thanks again Jack,
Eclise Mill Newbie
Amy care to name names on the business looking for web people. I might be interested.
Obviously "newbie" doesn't get it either-- the arrogance-- of these pretenders is amazing----and yes the chbpod-- fits------but non of you get it--- fine -- come ahead- target me in the next election---I could really care less--- wel------------actually I would love it---but hold on to your thongs if you do-------this is it-- there is plenty that neerds fixing-- so goers the lament of ther newbies--- and you just know what to fix-- and how to fix it---I am really disappointed that you chose to come to a community that needed your fixing up--- what fixing up??? did you know that before you came??? if so how pathetic and how arrigant-- let's move to North Adams and save the fricking place---wgat's wrong with it??? well- I don;t know-- but any place that lets me in must have something wrong with it---and I'll figure out what it is that's wrong the week or two after I move in-----pretty fricking pathetic---and when did Greg ever make NA "his city" he;s done nothing but carp- whine and complain ever since he's been here---h e works in Billsville-- but I guess his job is so worthless that he can't afford to live there---or send his kids to school there--EVEN under school choice-----go ahead -target me in the next Council race---but be prepared to get it dished back---and frankly I don't think you sissies have the guts for it---chbpod
The question of "Us vs. Them"
Will be settled, though I don't know when.
Won't be fixed in a fit
Of hysterical spit
Or spontaneous outburst of phlegm.
Clark. I will make this suggestion once, and once only. Leave my kid and his schooling out of any discussions you have. If you want to drag a second grader into the fray, you are asking for it.
chbpod,
Do you live in a utopia, needing no improvement?
Would you be happier if the newcomers had no interest in improving matters?
Or would you decry that too?
In the absence of incoming yuppies and yuppie jobs, to whom do you think the aging indigenes are going to sell their houses when they move to a nursing home, or to the state of Florida?
Are you more hostile to newcomers who don't use North Adams' schools, or to newcomers who do, or is each more contemptible than the other?
Greg,
I wouldn't take it too personally; he attacks everyone's choices.
I should add, in (faint) praise of the Prince Of Darkness, that he displays none of a politician's typical traits. But one might wonder how many voters he slaps at the average city council meeting.
Ladies and Gentlmen - Civility has just left the building.
Good Night!!
Chris - Sorry that you neighbor is an asshole. I know how that goes, although most of my neighbors are absolutely great. (Have I told you about the guy who showed up with sand when my car got stuck in the snow?)
I am glad that you understand that us "newbies" came here because of opportunity rather than some other goofy explanation. As you have seen, there are a few long-term residents who think that North Adams must be a place of last-resort for anybody who moves here. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Well said Greg, and Jack, cheers to you for allowing us to come in and start a bar fight in your virtual living room.
No problem AMY...I can replace the furniture at Goodwill, if only attitudes could be replaced that easily.
To add real people to the fray, I have met the person Chris was talking about, and he was being kind to the man. Point being this is just the type of person that is giving the Arts Community a bad rep. This is the type of person that we have been talking about.
This us vs them thing started when a city councilor brought his personal opinion to the floor, and called for action. Like a dog shitting on the public's lawn, the stench was smelt around the world. This was like spitting in someones face and telling them it is for your own good. It made all the locals look like a bunch of redneck hicks, and made the artist community feel threatened. Some decided to run for public office. That is the way it is supposed to be in this great country. Weather you were born here or moved here yesterday, all voices are welcome. In one neighborhood the asshole is an artist, in the next neighborhood the asshole is a local. Oh and that city concilor who thought, this is how you deal with the sketch of a nude in a window on a side street, he got re-elected.
Tommy Townie
The artists may have felt threatened by the proposal to pass an ordinance banning nude art from public view----but they shouldn't have-- if they knew the process they would have realized that the other 8 members of the Council knew that even if we wanted to pass such an ordinance--it would be unconstitutional----rhetoric from councilors would not have "proven" that-at the time-- so we shipped it off to the City Solicitor for definitive proof- federal and state case law that clearly would prove that such art was not obscene---and therefore was protected free speech---to suggest that the entire council is(was) a bunch of rednecks---is not true---but to suggest that the artists' perception of being threatened was unwarranted---- is true. Statements made during the campaign by some of the artist candidates that the artist community deserved representation on the Council fell on deaf ears-- and rightfully so--is Dick Alcombright elected as the representative of the banking community??-- Marie Harpin- the social service community?? Al Marden- the real estate community??
Bob Moulton- Gailanne Cariddi CJT--Ron Boucher- Mike Bloom-- the business community?? or chbpod- the academic community??? of course not ----no subset "community" deserves representation--- the only "community" deserving of represenation on the City Council is the community of North Adams as a whole-------now here is a proposal-- of course it won't work-- but go back to an 11 or 12 ward system--- and elect counilors by ward -not at large-- and if enough artists are clustered in one ward they could probably get one of them elected--chbpod
For Eclipse Mill Newbie---- you can target me all you want--- I welcome it----but Councilor Moulton is the one that started all this "anti-art" furor---- and that - I would say absolves EricRudd of perhaps poor judgment---what did he expect-- and he had been here ten years----however-- the issue that came before the Council-- had less to do with naked ladies -per se- and more to do with naked ladies a few hundred yards from the Middle School and a few churches----in fact several years before this when Eric staged his Downtown Installation--- in one sti=ore window ther was two works of art that were - somewhat modernistic- renderings of female and male genitalia--- no hoop la- although I suspect that the casual local observer didn;t have a clue----there are sculptures in Joel Rudnick's studioe in Holden St.--- that are nude------so let's put this in presepctive--- Eric's in your face (and he knew it was in your face) presentation--- was challenged not in the "name" of nude art but because of it's location-- that is not to say that Councilor Moulton endorses nud art-- I have no idea-----all that I know is that it was not obscene---and protected free speech--- if he had done his homework-- or even called me (he doesn't do e-mail )---the matter would probably never have come up--- I like naked ladies----and I have several adorning the walls of my house-- and a sculpture in the back yard as well----I wanted to buy Eric's drawing- but at the time I could not afford the tariff-----I do have a few works that go beyond his asking price-- and I do not have a velvelt Elvises--- chbpod
There is nothing wrong with nude art, even in the schools....what the hell have we turned into, a bunch of bear foot mountain bumpkins that turn off the lights to take a shit or a shower because we are afraid we min't see our nakidness.....gimmy a break....WE arn't Puritians! And another thing...maybe we should burn all the art books in the library and the schools because someone may see a nakid person! What ass holes! Get a life! I suppose you and your wife never showered togather? Well... probibly not... I'm with you chbpod all the way!
I'm with you Southview----EXCEPT!!!!! we don;t shower together-- OK??? chbpod
Their stupidity just pisses me off!!! Oh... what kind of soap do you like? :~)
If only these old houses came with double showers. (Actually, I saw one on Cherry Street that did, but it was a bit expensive, and its renovations were not completed.)
Post a Comment