Good Morning People! ..... I have been doing a little surfing and looking at WI-FI. WOW.....I wasn't aware that just being able to connect to the internet was such a big deal. Like everything today it has come down to the greedy corporations facing off against the wishes of the people. We are talking, MUNI-WI-FI. Seems that, as usual, some of our public servants have been bought off by greedy corporations and have gone so far as to submitting legislation of behalf of corporations making it a crime to install a MUNI-WI-FI system in some places. Check out this link..... http://www.freepress.net/communityinternet/networks.php
Ok my opinion....MUNI-WI-FI is a good thing! I know just the mention of this makes some politicos break out in a sweat and their heart start palputating like crazy. The 21st century is not kind to regressive politicians that vote their pocket book rather than their duty to the people. MUNI-WI-FI is a reality who's time has come. Like other city services, water - sewerage (?) - trash pick up (?) - a dump (?) - schools - etc... MUNI-WI-FI is a staple of the 21st century. We are not talking of putting some local small internet provider out of business because they don't provide high speed access, we are talking having to compete with corporate giants that don't want the competition because that would mean lower profits for themselves and having to provide a better service. Heaven forbid! ...Checked your UP Load speed lately?
what we are going through now is liken to when OLD Ma BELL was the only telephone Company in town. Hell... if they had had their way we would still have to go through Geraldine to get our call through. (One Ringie Dingy - snuck,snuck,snuck ) OK, IT's YOUR DIME...VOTE
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Hey man, sit won't log my votes?!?
At the pace that things move in NA, it is probably too late for the Muni-Wifi model as Greg has pointed out. It took how long just to get (an average) web site up and running.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If the city is going to pursue this, they need to be looking at technology that is just starting to hit the market for two reasons. One, the lag time before anything actually gets done and two, there maybe more grant or research money available for new technology looking for a test site.
Those new "cards" that one plugs into a laptop and use cell service are unbelievably fast, but they are only good for one machine at a time and you're locked into the good graces of Verizon. Now if someone invents a router that will take these cards and then feed two or three PC's, they maybe a serious threat to the broadband movement. But there is so much more to highspeed communications than just surfing the net that I still think broadband is the way to go.
One councilor has already stated that they are deadset against any such ideas. In my opinion the fastest, most effective pathway to highspeed communication in NA is some type of cooperative between MoCA, MCLA, and either the city (using the Mohawk Theatre) or Berkshire Connect.
Who was the councilor and did he/she give his/her reasons?
I'll let the councilors speak for themselves.
I guess I should weigh in here. Our little working group needs to meet again (and for that, I take full responsibility - it's just kinda piled up here at the end of the year), but I want input. I'm not an expert on technology, so if there's some cutting-edge stuff out there we should get in on it.
WF
Did any of you find that site interesting and informative?
Wes has posted a link to that site before and usually any search on broadband will return some link to it. I find it more interesting some towns is south county, some wealthy towns, are without high speed and don't have a clue as how to get it.
Most people want to throw money at, or maybe demand service from, Verizon and the cable companies. I personally think this is a huge mistake and which would leave the town's people at the mercy of Verizon's whims. Ask JB how much fun he has dealing with the cable companies every few years.
The Councilor who opposes Muni Wi-Fi---is of course moi-----I read some time ago that it costs about $150,000/square mile to install it-- with 20 square miles that would be $3 million bucks-----and where do you think you'd find that money in our budget?? Wi-Fi to me is simply an affectation and of little interest to most people-except for the elites----------we have wi-fi on campus and all freshmen this year were required to have a laptop-- and yet I see very few students carrying around a lap top or even using one-----the technplogy is changing so rapidly that wi-fi will be replaced by something else in a few years---I fully expected to have a class full of laptops--so people could type up my class notes---and yet in two years only two students brought a lap top to class---one used it for taking notes--- the other was playing video games---and I banned his laptop from class---I simply do not see it as a municipal issue---and to try and make the case that it is-- doesn;t make any sense to me--it is not trash disposal- water & sewer--education - or snow removal-----count me out on any such proposal that would involve the expenditure of municipal funds--chbpod
"it is not trash disposal- water & sewer--education - or snow removal" It that what the charter for the CC states are the only jobs of the CC? Although I'm sure one could make an argument for education. How about for police and Fire dept? I would also make a wager that each of these area's would benefit in some way from broadband.
I don't know about the cost for square mile, but that sounds pretty high to me.
Just because the students are not taking their laptops to class does not mean that they are not taking advantage of the service elsewhere.
Of course you are only one out of nine, even with 3 more fanatical right wing dialup huggers, a resolution could pass. But I still stand on the premise that the gov't of NA moves too slow for such an endeavor and MoCA and MCLA is where the push should be.
chbpod...I thought the mayor was toughting North Adams as the new progressive city at the forfront of new modern inovation? I don't think that it should be (MUNI-WI-FI) discarded without some real facts being resurched. Maybe a committee appointed to do some fact finding would be appropiate. Find the facts and see if their are public or private funds available. Isn't Dan on the Joint Committee on Economic Development and Emerging Techologies? He sure would be a good place to start. He could even help with his contacts in Boston to get the City (town) on the right tract. Don't throw it in the trash without giving it some look see!
I think in many ways NA is a progressive town, unfortunately it was burned on the whole technology wave once before and I believe that will make it doublely difficult for anything to gain traction coming from town government. I also think this is what makes allowing Verizon to foot the bill so attractive. But if you extrapolate the poor service, poor product, and rising cost of cable in town - putting all your eggs in the Verizon basket will make for one very painful and expensive omlet.
Would somebody please explain the benefits of wi-fi or broad band to me-----and I mean what personal benefits would I get---I can get DSL if I want it--through BCN or directly through Verizon--and I understand that DSL is 50 times faster than Dial Up and that broad band is faster than that----so please as a citizen---- what benefits do I get? chbpod
An interestingly good question chbpod! On the personal level only you can answer that one. What do you want and need from your internet service? If you only E-mail and blog then a dial-up is sufficent, if the content is simple text and you don't mind waiting for the page to load. Anything above that then you need high speed. In todays world content is usually complex and includes very large files. Dial-up is not practical for this. As time goes on content is going to become even more complex and just the time it takes to load that content into your computer will increase...as I am sure you have experienced if you are on a dial-up connection.
That's a direct enough answer---although I have no idea what sort of information would be involved--- e-mail- blogging- and reading a number of on-line newspapers and magazines--is what I do-- sometimes a google search for something---I don;t see how Wi-Fi or broadband would benefit me---nor do I see how it would benefit --except for speed---anyone else that uses their computer the way I do----oh sure I do course syllabi on Word-----but I can't see the benefits-----my $150,000/square mile comes from an article I read about a year ago---I think that that was the estimate for Phillie to do Muni-WiFi----I have no idea about what my fellow councilors use their computers for-- not all even have one--some my have dial up others DSL----but I don;t think that a major municipal expenditure would be OK'd---- even by the Mayor--- and yes there is an ad hoc committee of citizens-- I think spearheaded by Wes Flinn looking into this---but they have been stalled a bit in meetings--- as Wes posted somewhere recently---I think some communities have contrated directly with a server/source to provide- install and maintain the system rather than the municipality itself--but I assume the community would still be paying the freight I really haven;t heard anyone say what the benefits would be--at least so that I can understand them---to the community as a whole--- other than it's fast and cool---and convenient--- I simply can;t see it as a municipal necessity---I am sure that there are some who would benefit-----businesses?? I suppose so---- but what "profits" accrue--or losses if they don't have it---as for individuals???? as I said before an affectation----to me it's nothing more than 500 idiots lining up at Wal-Mart to get one of 8 Play Station 3 consoles---must have the latest----I know that that is capitalism---and I have no problem with that----except when it becomes socialism--and the taxpayer is asked to subsidize some upper middle class convenience----chbpod
That's a direct enough answer---although I have no idea what sort of information would be involved--- e-mail- blogging- and reading a number of on-line newspapers and magazines--is what I do-- sometimes a google search for something---I don;t see how Wi-Fi or broadband would benefit me---nor do I see how it would benefit --except for speed---anyone else that uses their computer the way I do----oh sure I do course syllabi on Word-----but I can't see the benefits-----my $150,000/square mile comes from an article I read about a year ago---I think that that was the estimate for Phillie to do Muni-WiFi----I have no idea about what my fellow councilors use their computers for-- not all even have one--some my have dial up others DSL----but I don;t think that a major municipal expenditure would be OK'd---- even by the Mayor--- and yes there is an ad hoc committee of citizens-- I think spearheaded by Wes Flinn looking into this---but they have been stalled a bit in meetings--- as Wes posted somewhere recently---I think some communities have contrated directly with a server/source to provide- install and maintain the system rather than the municipality itself--but I assume the community would still be paying the freight I really haven;t heard anyone say what the benefits would be--at least so that I can understand them---to the community as a whole--- other than it's fast and cool---and convenient--- I simply can;t see it as a municipal necessity---I am sure that there are some who would benefit-----businesses?? I suppose so---- but what "profits" accrue--or losses if they don't have it---as for individuals???? as I said before an affectation----to me it's nothing more than 500 idiots lining up at Wal-Mart to get one of 8 Play Station 3 consoles---must have the latest----I know that that is capitalism---and I have no problem with that----except when it becomes socialism--and the taxpayer is asked to subsidize some upper middle class convenience----chbpod
I wasn't trying to make a "point" by posting the same message twice---although it is testimony to the fact that I am a computer idiot ( and you needn't say it-- on other things as well) chbpod
POD there may not be a direct benefit to you or there could be many direct but hidden benefits depending who takes advantage of such a system. Doctors ( or maybe the patient) able to get more detailed information, communicating in real time with hospitals around the world; classrooms that might be able to take advantage of world wide learning; a whole new world of resources opened to teachers that could be included in their daily curriculum in real time; instant communication with residents in the event of a natural disaster or terrorist event; college students who may not be unable to physically attend a campus could take classes online, sit in on lectures, participate in class discussions; More and more electronic content is delivered and expected to be received via download from the internet; smart technology appliances that can communicate with their support/repair technicians; home health monitoring for the aging population and the very young.
The uses of this highway range from entertainment to health and education to security and will only be limited by one’s imagination. Granted Wi-Fi in its present form will not be around long, but just like cameras, radio, telephone, TV, transportation, etc – the concept and/or backbone will be able to shift with the technology and make it easier for a community to keep up with the changing infrastructure. To simply not get involved and wait for the final version is futile at best and ignorant at worst.
The highspeed information highway is so much more than surfing the net and sending email, and is rapidly become a necessary service not just an “upper middle class convenience”, quickly becoming expected by perspective business and home owners – not be overly dramatic but to be without could be the death of a community.
You're full of crap-- death of a community???? talk about the absurd---all of those things are available now--world wide learning??-- that's crap---how about US learning - screw the rest of the world------business and homw owners???--- elites-----if they want broad band- wifi orwhatever-- let them do it it themselves----You are just another nanny state leech--- spend my money on you--- get out of town----chbpod
Ok one- specific--- handicapped students (or ones that are too lazy ass to get out of bed can do what with my lectures????? what the hell does that have to do with wi-fi or broad band--we already have connections for Drs with NARH--- and you want world wide??? like if I have a tummy ache-- I'm going to go on line and ask some witch doctor in Sudan for a second opinion?? WTF-- chbpod
Like I said ignorant at worst.
Just a few comments at this point may be helpfull. Dial-up is a very slow way of communicating on the net, although it was in its time the marvel of modern technology.
But time marches on! People no longer want to wate forever for a page to download on their computers, sometimes not at all because of the large files that have to be transmitted. They no longer want to get interupped in the middle of something by their telephone cutting off their download or their internet service in the middle of something. I had dial-up as did mostly everyone else but once I experienced high speed my eyes were open. MUNI-WI-FI would bring the cost of high speed internet within the reach of everyone, and if the cost of high speed internet was the same as for dial-up.....which one would you pick? I see it as a win win situation for the people of North Adams so just looking into the feaseability and getting the facts out there for the public to see would be.....well....the right thing to do...wouldn't you say?
Ok let me try to understand this----there are a bunch of computer geeks that want the city to provide them with high speed service--for free--is that correct?? If the Superintendant of Schools and the School Committee (including the Mayor) decide to wi-fi all the schools and not just Conte---fine with me---that service would have been determined to be a municipal educational need---If the Commissioner of Public Safety decides it is needed for Fire-Police and EMT---okay with me- have the Mayor put it in the budget---I'll vote for that---or get a grant----I'll vote to support a grant application----if MoCA decides it wants wi-fi--- great- go ahead and do it---if a coffee shop on Main St. wants Wi-Fi so it can function as a computer cafe-( does Cup & Saucer have it?? I heard that they did or were going to--- more power to them---I wonder if Jae's Inn will keep their service-----probably --I suspect greater use by guests and spa patrons than by diners anyway------if Drs and NARH want it- do it---in other words if someone wants it---- do it------if I wanted DSL (much faster than my dial up)----I could do it---it costs only a little more than what I have now---but I certainly wouldn't expect the City to provide me with that service for free-----MCLA determined that it needed it and did it--they didn't ask the City to do it for them---frankly I don't know how many homes have computers with internet access-----there are hot spots in town- and if you're so fired up to have broad band do it yourself--there are more important things for which the city does have a responsibility other than providing
computer geeks with greater speed---I don't download video games or music videos---sure when I get into my e-mail and am receving mail---and after 15 minutes the first message hasn't arrived- I can tell that someone is sending me a video----I go do something else and wait for it to load---I'm in no hurry----I doubt that my home computer is equiped for wi-fi--- I'd probably have to go out and buy a new computer----and I have little or no use for a lap top--except for may two weeks when I am away in the Caribbean and don;t have access to a hotel computer-- I could go to one of the bars that has wi-fi---and check my e-mail back home---but that's not critical---sorry but I do not see a cross the board municipal benefit---chbpod
POD, I dont remember seeing anywhere that someone said the city should provide the service free.
To base a decision on your internet usage would be like basing the purchase of a city dump truck on your driving habits.
I have always said that this endeavor should not involve the city other than the permitting process. MoCA and MCLA are much better equipment to make this happen.
I don't think anyone is asking anything of city government other than to help with locating possible grant sources or at the very least to get out of the way and stop putting the idea down.
You'll be happy to know I'm done trying to argue this point and will go back to taking care of my own little gig that I've got going, its obvious that the will and knowledge is just not accessable in the municipal operations of NA - stick with the pooper scooper laws, they're more your speed.
Oh by the way -Lily Tomlin's one ringie dingie character was Ernestine---------Geraldine was Flip Wilson-- blond drag character---I looked it up? why? The Devil Made Me Do It-----chbpod
Well the permitting process probably would have nothing to so with the City Council-----not have the City provide the service free??? OK with me- but who then does provide it and how are people charged for its use----other wi-fi fans have suggested that the City do it-- snoopy is apparently one that disagrees----southview thinks it should be a city service like dumps----it seems that no one has a plan much less a proposal-------and no one has convinced me of the need-----------so maybe we should end all this mindless and worthless talk----I have heard no ground swell demand for WiFi----I think only four people that I know of have pushed this particular envelope-----as I said if local institutions want to do it --good for them----but I still don't know what MCLA andMoCA could do to rig the entire City----
The great POD has spoken. On three everyone bury their heads back in the sand. Ready . . . One. . .Two . . . Three!
Well you still haven't answered my questions---maybe you geeks need to have things asked in a more simplistic fashion: so here goes
1. Who installs the infrastructure?
2. Who pays for it?
3. Who maintains it?
4. Who pays for maintenance?
5. Is the service free?
6. If 5 is a no-- who bills the users?
7. How do users sign up and with whom?
8. And who are they paying the fee
to?
COST- COST-COST!!!!!!!! and who pays???? pretty basic non-technical questions I would think---instead I get called a Luddite---by a handful of computer geeks----so I am ignorant---but so are you---- when you think everyone will jump on your on personal bandwagon and cheer--- when you cannot or will not answer simple questions the answer to which I think mots people would want to know----you may or may not know the answers but you have certainly not communicated them to me---I surf the net- and I e-mail and I post on blogs---that's all I need---if it's slow with Dial up-- that's my problem not a municipal one------where's the Chamber of Commerce on this one-- NARH?? Drs?? you don;t answer------Banks??? if this were such a necessity----- where's the hew and cry????---sorry asshole da snoop my head is not in the sand--- but your's is up your ass----ANSWER MY FUCKING QUESTION----one by one----chbpod
Waiting for dialup makes one testy doesn't it. Let me preface my answers by stating that these question you have asked are similar to what Wes and Southview were looking to get done and you shot him/them down without an ounce of an offer to find out, but you throw a hissy fit when you feel someone isn't paying attention to your questions.
It is obvious that this project, if it flys, will fly without you regardless if you want to be on board or not. But to dry your tears this is what I believe.
Here are MY answers to your questions:
1) Either the group that eventually moves this project forward OR the group that is looking for a test area for their product.
2)Initial seed money could come from grants and/or donors similar to how MoCA was launched. Maybe a combination of the above and those who would use it.
3)Same as #1
4)Same as #2 and / or from revenues generated by end users.
5)Not in my opinion, though a group could certainly by bandwidth and let others use it if this were to their benefit - like a hot spot or the library.
6)The entity that is created to oversee the project.
7)Same as #6, sign up could be as easy as launching ones browser and filling out a form.
8)Same as #6
The "hew and cry" as you put it is in the form of business locating to places that do support this; it manifests itself in people relocating out of the area, or not returning after college, to areas that do support this. There was just a rather large article in the Eagle the other day where south county citizens were outraged that no one is doing anything to bring this service to their towns - a meeting attended by Downing and Pignatelli by the way.
chbpod...thanks ! I knew it had a (ine ) in the name. :~ )
Well le snoop-- you are french aren't you???? you still have not given me an entitiy--- and seem to rely on grants---like there are grants out there waiting for the needy to pick them up-- you offer absolyely no concrete suggestions---you must be french-----that obtuse----you gave me no answers worth considering--- you gave me no examples----must be a geek---must have everything so fast-----please tewll me who it is that is vacating NA and who is refusing to come here because we did not have Muni- Hi- Fi---------and why is it that it would do you no good??? is you're all set--- who needs it??? chbpod
No POD that is true, I don't have an entity yet. But its also true that an entity will never be found unless one goes out and looks. Tell me, were you this against MoCA when it was in it planning stages, the Mohawk Theater restoration, the former Kmart plaza? I wonder how anything gets done in NA with attitudes such as yours.
I have no interest in argueing with you any further. I've offered my service and what knowledge I have and have asked for nothing in return, but you make it just not worth the trouble. I'll stick with towns that have an interest in such a offer.
You can kiss my French ass!
Well you haven't offered jack shit---no entity --no assessment----no answers to my questions---and as far as arguing with me-- since you can not answer my questions---who's arguing-- it's like talking to a geek wall---you know so much-- why isn;t something happening---I am not the only game in town---but apparently you don;t have any other contacts---where is the MoCA and MCLA that you tout???? where is the businness community? the banks- NARH----I have heard nothing from any of these groups--have you ???? doubtful-- you seem to be the GURU-- the know it all---and you don't know jack shit---you represent a very marginal and elitist handfull of geeks who can't stand that their streaming videos come in so slow-------and you want the city to pay for it----
get a fucking life---------you are definately a moron-----crazed with cyber shit---and I don;t even know if you live in NA---if you don't -- shut the fuck up--- if you do-- don;t vote for me next year---chbpod
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