Good Morning People!..........Do we, meaning the City (town) of North Adams have in their employ a person that does Grant research on a full time basis or do we just wing it, when we hear of something we go for it? A few links I came across that will be interesting reading for us non politico types that don't normally hear of these things or even know that they exist.
http://www.mass.gov/Aosc/docs/policies_procedures/contracts/po_procon_state_grants_fed_sub.pdf
http://www.mass.gov/portal/index.jsp?pageID=mg2searchlanding&sid=massgov2&query=grants
Just something to get the juices running for those interested in WI-FI and where it would fit into the Comunity Development Program in the City (town). There seems to be a lot out there in grant monies just for the asking!.......... So why arn't we asking?..... It's Your Dime!
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26 comments:
CJT since you didn't jump in on any of the "discussion" with POD, is one to assume that you agree with his statements? If not, why didn't we hear from you?
I agree with CJT-- I think he is being very realistic about City sposorship--- the Banks--- usually contribute from their "Good Neighbor" fund or whatever it is they call it--- BUT if the Banks see a corporate use for W-Fi-- they might pony up even more---if they don;t see the need-----then maybe we don't need it at all---chbpod
Well Southview--- you don't file a grant application without a plan-- a propsal that can be set down in black and white and not only justify the concept but the purpose and application of the funding--- and as far as I can see- no one is anywhere near that stage--maybe Wes Flinn "group" will come up with something--and submit it to the City inorder to file a grant---but from what I have seen---there is no consensus--no plan- no proposal---and forgive me if I am sceptical----ideas that may sound wonderful to some do not necessarily sound wonderful to others----and ideas that have no concrete definition-- are totally worthless---until that definition is reached-------and then comes the wonderfullness or not ---chbpod
Although I do like the idea of a competitive market for internet service and the idea of high speed internet for the price of dial-up, your point has been well takin chbpod! I am no grant wizzard, but I do know that without a valued sponsor you can forget it. I think all anyone is asking here is the City (town) lend a helping hand and look at the feasibility of WI-FI for the City. Using their contacts, that the general public doesn't have access to, in helping with the research. Those that feel it is needed and those that don't should come togather and just do a simple pro/con list and see who in the city (municipal and business intrest) would be willing to back such a venture. Dan Bosley and his committee must have oggles of contacts that have been through this before and could help a lot. Oh before I forget....the city dump is no longer a city service, as well as trash pick up, or sewer for a great number in the city. All those use to have services and those services that everyone should have have gone the way of pay your own way thank you...signed the mayor!
We don't have a sewer fee- although I have been an advocate for it---in many communities your charge for sewer is based on your water usage---since tub- sink- toilet accounts for most people's usage - so water usage is a fair estimate-- of course lawn watering- filling swimming pools and washing your car uses water that doesn't go into the sewer line---but for that- most peoples water usuage can be a fairly accurate assessment of sewer use-----on the Wi-Fi thing contrary to snoopy's assertion over on blazerblog-- I am not for or against Wi-Fi---but sceptic that I am---- as though I were from Missouri-- " show me" don;t expect me to take it on faith----actually I talked to the Mayor last night----told him about the debate over wi-fi-- he chuckled---did say he'd like to see more hot spots----but rigging the entire city???? not in the cards at this time---actually Greg Roach has a post on Wi-Fi-on his blog---and links to an article by some MIT scientist-- who predicts that Wi-Fi as we know it today is rapidly becoming obsolete---frankly I couldn't really understand a lot of it-- too technical for me----one of the problems in communication is that techie types know what they know and assume everyone else is as smart and knowledgeable as they are---well some of us simply are not--------I get accused as a Councilor for not doing my job by investigating Wi-Fi----actually I thought that that was what I was doing----only Councilors on this blog or other local blogs are CJT and I---------I'm still waiting to get answers---what I do get is that from most of these advocates that wi-fi is not simply nice-- but that's it critical that we have it----since I wouldn;t use it---I don't understand why it's critical---am I going to die if I don;t have it??? as for implementation there seems to be a variety of answers---but I still don;t understand the whole thing---and I am not about to bring this to the City Council--------when I don;t know what I am talking about---and probably the rest of the Councilors don;t either-----frankly I think Wes Flinn's little ad hoc study group could come up with some specific recommendations---but if they disagree over implementation-- then where are we??? I think I can safely say this--- that rigging up the entire city will not be done unless a vendor comes in and does the infrastructure-----and KNOWS that there is a market for it---------chbpod
"contrary to snoopy's assertion over on blazerblog-- I am not for or against Wi-Fi"
"The Councilor who opposes Muni Wi-Fi---is of course moi-----" CHBPOD 12/1/06 post on this blog.
"----but rigging the entire city???? not in the cards at this time"
I don't know of anyone pushing this idea, certainly not me.
"who predicts that Wi-Fi as we know it today is rapidly becoming obsolete"
My comment was that I agreed with Greg, that at some point current WiFi standards will be obsolete, but to wait for a final version was futile at best and ignorant at worst. At some point you have to jump in the game and go from there.
"actually I thought that that was what I was doing----only Councilors on this blog or other local blogs are CJT and I---------I'm still waiting to get answers-" You are deriding those who wish to explore this issue and claim we are morons because we cannot give a specific plan, when you yourself admitted that to come up with specifics would be a long way off.
"but I still don;t understand the whole thing---and I am not about to bring this to the City Council--------" Again, no one asked you to - just stop shooting it down with degrading remarks towards those who wish to pursue it.
"that rigging up the entire city will not be done unless a vendor comes in and does the infrastructure-----and KNOWS that there is a market for it"
You don't read what people have said, you immediately pass it off as a "newbie" trying to "scam" the "locals". Wes' original proposal was for a "hot spot" that covered from MoCA to Eagle Street.
And if, as you admit, you know nothing about the technology, why don't you stay out of the discussion? If you're not going to be part of the solution, then don't make yourself part of the problem.
You finally admitted that you were behind MoCA and the Mohawk from the beginning, I bet you didn't jump all over those who initially proprosed the idea saying where are the facts, I want black and white answers. You oppose this idea because it is from the newer residents of this town and you see it as threat to your status quo running of the town.
Snoopy- you are a bitter decrepid old man-------and it is no wonder that no one listens to you-----"running the town"" are you out of your fucking mind--- John Barrett runs this town---not me------now why don't you move along and kiss some newbie asses------such as the one belonging to the idiot who proposed tearing down the flood control chute in order to make the Hoosac River more fish and people friendly-- or the one sho advocated no City involvement in the skating rink-- and that the money would be better spent on subsidiaing artists rent- so they could afford to live here---if I am contempuous of "newbie" ideas--- you got it------because so far they haven't showed me shit--- except for shit for brains==and you "old timer" haven't showed me shit either---you stay anonomymous---in the shadows----says something about you--- chicken shit-----who knows maybe you are a prominent person in town----great influence----but all I know is that you are a coward---I'm out here warts and all----and you want to have a burqa on your head----you are a gutless interloper--- why should I listen to you---Wes?? Greg?? John??---they have guts-- you don't---and anybody who thinks they are going to have any influence by remaining anonymous-- IS A FUCKING MORON!!!! Game -Set-Match
CHBPOD
You are always so quick to call the game - I don't think you have lost yet, but you're close. I guess by failing to address any of my previous post and instead falling back on the anonymous crap, you are admitting defeat.
I don't care to have any influence over anyone, I merely offer my suggestions. Don't like the fact that I remain anonymous, don't reply to my posts. The bottom line is you don't listen to anyone, anonymous or not, so why should I bother.
Oh but I do listen to you- even if you are anonymous-- and have gained some stuff from your posts----so you are not totally irrelevent---remember I am an idiot when it comes to technology---I am perfectly happy with dial up---- DSL though BCN has different rates according to speed-- the top speed rate which- if as advertised provides 50 times the speed is $189 / month---sorry doesn't interest me-- with my $20/month for dial up----I don't need it--- that is not to say that others wouldn;t like speed or even need speed---but the argument that it would attract new companies--is questionable-- first I would want to see existing companies in town demanding it---then it would suggest a market and a need---so far- nada- zip- bupkis---sorry I need more info--- BUT I think I am on the right track--- insults or not-----trying to spur some definitive asnwers-- chbpod
Well cjt- to answer you question " what is muni wi fi"? I haven't a clue---I assumed from Wes' blog that it was "muni" as in something the City should be doing-- as a city government---- that may not be the case---I think Wes has a "discussion: group organized but I'm nit sure how often they meet---I surewould like to see some concrete proposals and options----but as I say the only people that I know of that are even talking about this are a handful on these blogs---so what do we have-- 6-10 people that are touting this-- and even they are not in agreement--when someone that I know-- particularly from the business community or health care proposes something like this---I would be more interested in listening-- than to snoopy-- who I do not know----wes-- who I have never met--- southview who I have never met---Greg- John-- Ross who I have never-met-- maybe one of these should at least come to a Council meeting and express their views under Open Forem---of course maybe their views are not concrete enough yet to be expressed in the real public---blogging is good---blogging can get some "stuff" out there----I'm just trying to learn---but when I am called ignorant because I don;t "believe" -I get pissed-----call me ignorant because I don;t understand?? OK__I plead guilty--- but this "faith" thing trust me - I know what I am talking about thing pisses me off----I have no idea what anyone is talking about--except theory--speculation----and that does not make faith---except in religion----chbpod
CJT in MY opinion, Muni WiFi has come to, at least locally, represent WiFi, which has come to represent highspeed internet access. There are many forms of highspeed internet access of which Muni Wifi and Wifi are flavors. I think in general Muni Wifi is what San Fran, Philly, Chicago, et al are implementing. High speed internet access for the masses - funded and supported by the local government. WiFi is highspeed internet access in 802.11 framework. Mostly likely in the license free 2.4Ghz spectrum, that which most home networks are designed to transmit and receive. 802.11 has many incarnations with letter designations - "A" up to "N" (I believe is the latest to be standarized). 802.11b was the flavor of choice for a long time, it was replaced by 802.11g for the last year or two. 802.11i showed some promise but is quickly being replaced by 802.11n. All in the 2.4Ghz spectrum.
There are however two (at this time) other license free spectrums. 900Mhz and 5.8Ghz. Each has its own benefits and detractions. 900Mhz is NLOS (non-line of sight) and can penetrate foliage and buildings reasonably well, but is limited to a max of 2Gbs at optimum conditions. 2.4 and 5.8 are LOS and will not penetrate foliage and only moderately penetrate walls of buildings. I have heard some pretty lofty claims of speed for these spectrums, but I don't know the actual values one can expect. There are many different configurations to deliver bandwidth to the end users and which makes choosing one over another very difficult especially with the standards changing so rapidly. Single access points delivering data in predefined paths to the end users to mesh systems which blanket an area with smaller transmitters/receivers and have the ability to choose the best path to deliver data to its destination.
There is also something called WiMax which is relatively new and seems to have many supporters but I don't know enough about it to make an coherent statements.
Throwing a wrench into to the process is the new technology from cell companies that, with a device or card plugged into a laptop, uses the cell technology to deliver data. I have recently witnessed one of these units in action and was impressed with the speeds, but you need one unit and, I assume, one contract for each computer. Of course access to a cell tower is also needed, but rapidly not becoming an issue. To my knowledge you cannot use these devices with desktop computers or multiple computers as you can with highspeed (broadband or WiFi)access. However, for the traveler, you can take your highspeed access with you.
There are several "wired" choices for high speed access, but I don't believe they fall under the WiFi/broadband unbrella.
I am by no means an expert on this technology, and welcome any corrections to what I have stated.
Cross posted on Blazer Blog:
Not wishing to stir up the dust again, just a comment on what I believe the problem would be if money were thrown at Verizon to solve the highspeed access void in Berkshire County. Please read Greg Roach's latest post at http://gregroach.blogspot.com/. I think empowering Verizon will only increase the end user's frustration.
HoooBoy- da snoop your explanation to CJT was all Geek to me-----this is a hell of lot more complicated than I thought---I'll get off the dialogue on this topic-- because it's way over my head---I thought band width was the size of a jazz combo----and that broad band referred to the Dixie Chicks-------
I am way too ignorant on this to participate in any meaningful manner----plus if I did I'd get frustrated and start name-calling---I am the true moron on this issue---probably some others too---thanks for demonstrating the complexities-----chbpod
POD I disagree that you should remove yourself from the discussion if, and only if, you can offer to help in a manner that fits your expertise - where can those who wish to pursue this project find answers to their questions - such as you did with Southview and the grant issue. You and CJT could contact other communities and see how/if they are attacking the issue, etc.
One of the largest sticking points for communities to pursue broadband/highspeed that I have witnessed is that each community has to basically re-invent the wheel.
Pursuing and helping to implement synergies between communities for the purpose of obtaining low cost, high enduser satisfaction highspeed would be a huge step in the right direction and something I could see the CC or Mayor of NA helping with. An easy, quick first step could be contacting those from the South County meeting last week and see how the two projects might dovetail together including what Berkshire Connect has done and is planning to do or least contacting Wes and saying "What can I do to help?".
Two points to remember - 1) I'm no expert but do have some knowledge in the field and 2)realize that there will probably not be solid answers to questions for some time, but not having these answers does not mean that the project is worthless.
Well I can't ask Wes anything- I'm banned from his board-----and now I feel so stupid that I'm afraid to ask anyone----my only contribution possibly would be on how I think the Mayor and/or Council might react to a proposal---you see I thought that there was ONE and only one "wifi"--and the question then was who does it and how much does it cost----and how does the user connect--etc.-certainly valid questions-----now I find out the answer is it "depends"----I think Wes was the first one to start pushing this idea---I'd rather wait before I get involved any further--see what he comes up with----and put the Gregs and Johns and Snoops in there too---I would probably vote affirmatively to apply for a study grant for a consultant----this should clearly go through the Community Development Office ------but consultants????? I recall a paragraph or two from Saul Alinsky's book-----he's visiting a friend and a female dog in heat trots down the street- his friend's male dog- goes nuts--Saul says- it's a good thing your dog is in the house----his friend says---wouldn;t make any difference-- my dog has been neutered---you see now he's only a consultant---I'll stay in the fringes-- and follow this topic---but I basically can't contribute anything--other than from a purely "political" perspective-----I don't like to be insulted anymore than you guys do---but if I just look and listen-- and that's it----I won;t have to change by tag to CHBMORON
Another thought--- I know CJT and I -as well as Al Marden and probably Gailanne are going to the Mass Municipal Meeting in January in Beantown------I haven't as yet seen a posting of workshops but if there is one on this topic- I can guarantee that the City will have representation----oh yes and if CJT attends 3 more workshops he's qualified to run for Mayor---chbmoron
Fair enough. You did prove me wrong on one issue this past week. I said you would never listen to what anyone had to say because the idea came from a newer resident of NA.
My personal feeling is that if you offered the olive branch to Wes something could be worked out. I have a lot of respect for Wes, and its my belief that if someone truly wanted to help, he would find a way.
Yes- CJT-- I did find the workshop on MuniWifi- sent a copy of the schedule to you and Uncle John---it happens to be the same time slot on Friday as another Open Meeting Law workshop--- but I think I will go to the WiFi one----and da snoop---as far as Wes is concerned?? I have sent him a number of inoffensive messages plus some links to articles----he has posted none- nor ever replied with a thanks but no thanks---I told him that I have no problem being banned--I earned it----but suggested that if I wanted to participate---I could send him an e-mail which he could subsequently post-- after monitoring it---no deal--he simply doesn't want to retract his ban in any form---- actually when he first did it----must be close to a year ago by now--- he said it would be "temporary" and he would review the situation----I guess his review---and my olive branches------weren't sufficient---oh well- no harm done--and I could care less------I just love the intolerence of left wing wing nuts------his ilk would love to sit down with Islamic radical terrorists and open dialogue that we are really nice folks -mean no harm---- and actually think that it would work----I guess since I am not a radical Islamic terrorist----talking with me is completely out of the question---I'll await his little cadre's findings---see what they have to say---I got no problem with that--chbmoron
POD I don't know what was in the articles or emails, but I disagree with your characterization of Wes and true terrorist. However that is between you and him. I agreed with the ban and would so again if the "newbie" trash talking lack of respect for one's opinions continued.
I've seen you in action for a number of years, have pretty thick skin, and love a good debate otherwise I would have discontinued my side of the discussion long ago.
Attending the workshop is a good first step, I hope you let us know what you find out. It would also be nice if you or CJT could communicate with Rep Pignatelli and Sen Downing concerning this issue and their thoughts from the south county meeting.
Usually they have some printed material handouts--- CJT and I will scoff up everyting we can--- and get it to some one who can scan it onto either or both Southview or Andy---- possibly Greg Roach and even Wes Flinn---we'll bring whatever we get back and share----best that we can do I think---maybe it will be nothing of value--- but maybe it will-- chbmoron
Hi folks- here's a heads up-- there is an interesting article in today's Washington Post about WiFi in the Alexandria VA school system---also a link to another article about Alexandria going Muni WiFi----I have sent the articles via e-mail to both Southview and Andy--and maybe they'll post the link--However, if you're surfing the blogs--and want a head start-here's how you can do it-- Asscess the WashingtonPost.com---- go to the Post's search engine and type in "laptops"--- it will bring you to a page with links to the two articles----the Muni WiFi I found to be quite instructive---chbpod
Other than Earthlink being the provider, alot of what I've been saying here. Also 2.7 million for the whole city, I thought 3mil for NA sounded off.
Sounds like they are using 2.4Ghz mesh system - excellent way to go for a muni system. NA could probably cover the downtown area for 50K or less with this type of system. Or a one or two access point (Maybe clock tower on MoCA and top of Library) with fixed wireless for less than that.
Now your getting the picture POD.
Actually my 3mill for MA was based on $150,000/square mile=at 20 sm===for Alexandria- which is 15.75 square miles-- it works out to be $170,000/ square mile-------Earthlink is doing it for free since they figure they can recoup the costs by user subscription----very probable in ciy of 128,000 (2000 census) with a per capita income of $37,645 )17th wealthiest in VA one of the wealthiest states in the country---given the demographics it is probable that there are a lot of laptops (aside from the school system) in use----my guess that would have been a part of any market study--------hot spot downtown is a much better than idea than the entire city--i don;t know the range of the bread boxes but 500 over a 15.75 square mile area amounts to a bout 30 a square mile-- sounds like they don't have much range---but maybe this is a different type of system than your clock tower-library suggestion--maybe throw in the high rise and the Holiday Inn-chbpod
entire Alexandria article now posted in Blazerblog-chbpod
Really wouldn't need to add the extra sites, I don't think they would do much for you and would add probably another 5K to the price tag. Depends on how the signal is dispersed. Omni antenna's transmit and receive 360 degrees though there are a few "dead spots" at certain distances. You can also get directional antennas in coverages of 60, 120, 180, and 270 degree sectors. There are also patch antennas that will pick up the signal from one side of the building and then send it 90 degrees around the corner of the building. Every added device takes a little from the system however.
Range, and as Greg is finding out, speed are two parameters that the manufacturers are always basing on optimum conditions in their test labs.
The bottom line is, what is in the path of the signal that will slow it down or stop it all together. One of the benefits of a mesh system is that the unit are smart units and can pick and choose the best path available.
When I was playing hoop and running track in high school and college I had great range and speed-- now my body is on dial up--chbpod
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